sunbeamtiger.co.uk

Answering a question on the Forum about the fate of the development Tigers.
The first series of 'AF' MKI vehicles were built by Jensen Motors for the Rootes Group between October 1963 and May 1964. Most were based on the SIV Alpine (Tourers & GT's) some on earlier models. The second series were built after the production start date. For now here is very brief summary and a quick gallery of the MK1 'Alpine Fords': http://www.sunbeamtiger.co.uk/Galleries ... index.html

AF1 = Le Mans Tiger...in USA
AF2 = Lost
AF3 = 45b Lew Spencer (first) race Tiger...substanially Lost
AF4 = In UK
AF5 = Lost
AF6 = In UK
AF7 = Don't know
AF8 = New York Auto Show exhibit...in USA
AF9 = In UK
AF10 =In UK
AF11 =Don't know
AF12 =Don't know
AF13 =Unused
AF14 =Automatic...last seen in the UK (1995) now thought lost.

Gallery pics include two 'AF' Tigers that todate haven't been ID'd to an AF assignment number. These are B9470008 and B9470009. The last image shows these two along with B9470010 at the 2004 National.

Big subject to knock off with a quick post. So please read as a simple summary!!

Graham
STOC
Editor

Nice one Graham. Very interesting.
It's suprising to see how many have been lost.
I presume substantially lost means badly binned.

Yes, shame to see so many "lost" but then again compared to other "marques" there are still a good number of Tigers surviving - which shows the Rootes build quality.

When values were so low, I can imagine a few "lost" AF Tigers were lost for being broken for their unique spares - I know of a current STOC member who broke a "Works" car for its go-faster spares and then subsequently chopped up the bodyshell for scrap

Tomaselli wrote:Yes, shame to see so many "lost" but then again compared to other "marques" there are still a good number of Tigers surviving - which shows the Rootes build quality.

When values were so low, I can imagine a few "lost" AF Tigers were lost for being broken for their unique spares - I know of a current STOC member who broke a "Works" car for its go-faster spares and then subsequently chopped up the bodyshell for scrap

when you say "works" as in a factory test/press car... or as in race/rally?

Nice one Graham, personally i'm very intrested in the early pre& post production cars.

And here's a "Possibly maybe" question to ponder.....

Is it at all possible? that AF5 -7-10-11-12-& 13 may well have been the very same cars as the "just prior to the pre production works rally cars?" By just simply swapping new Chassis plates and JAL numbers these cars could have changed identity anytime before their 1st reg date of June 64 as 311-312-293-294-and 295 etc? Or is there absolute proof that all the AF cars were all given UK registration's and were road taxed in their own right?

If so that would shoot my theory down.

Otherwise it may well have been an ideal solution for Rootes to use these otherwise servicabe vehicles in competition rather than destroying them. This is something that has gone on in "Works" competition departments for decades. Just look at Ford for example, they used the same "works" registration on two Mk1 Escorts in two different rally's going on at the same time

Just a thought that could maybe explain where these Tigers went rather than assuming they were destroyed or broken up back then? as they couldn't be sold to the general public......

Also as a closing thought were any of these lost AF cars in question Carnival Red by any chance?

Good post though cheers.....

Tomaselli wrote:Yes, shame to see so many "lost" but then again compared to other "marques" there are still a good number of Tigers surviving - which shows the Rootes build quality.

When values were so low, I can imagine a few "lost" AF Tigers were lost for being broken for their unique spares - I know of a current STOC member who broke a "Works" car for its go-faster spares and then subsequently chopped up the bodyshell for scrap

What condition was the works car in? It's certainly enough to make a grown man cry. Was it FRW 667C?

Regards, Robin.

Robin

I think Tony is referring to EGA 65C. Not strictly one of the 'works' team but a supported privateer of John Melvin/Hamish Wilson which finished the '65 Scottish Rally ahead of the 'works' entry!

10+ years later it fetched up in Exchange & Mart described as having rear accident damage and priced at £100.....!!

I'll look out the article in Cats Whiskers.

Graham
STOC Editor

John also ran a couple of works alpines before the Tiger, on ebay a few years backa SII Alpine fronted up with ally panels and a bunch of interiro mods that indicated a rally history. It went to the USA where a bit more digging showed works alpine prep, special access cut outs to get ot things etc.. many of the details made a few of unlined to think it may have been either the melvin car or perhaps the one hopkirk rallied.

gvickery wrote:Robin

I think Tony is referring to EGA 65C. Not strictly one of the 'works' team but a supported privateer of John Melvin/Hamish Wilson which finished the '65 Scottish Rally ahead of the 'works' entry!

10+ years later it fetched up in Exchange & Mart described as having rear accident damage and priced at £100.....!!

I'll look out the article in Cats Whiskers.

Graham
STOC Editor

Thanks for the reply Graham. That must have been some accident for it to be worth that amount. Now I understand why it was stripped for the go fast bits... worth more in scrap .

Regards, Robin.

Red Race Tiger wrote:

Is it at all possible? that AF5 -7-10-11-12-& 13 may well have been the very same cars as the "just prior to the pre production works rally cars?" By just simply swapping new Chassis plates and JAL numbers these cars could have changed identity anytime before their 1st reg date of June 64 as 311-312-293-294-and 295 etc? Or is there absolute proof that all the AF cars were all given UK registration's and were road taxed in their own right?

Red Race Tiger, I wish I had all the answers to your question.
Norman Miller cracked his brain trying to figure out this one long before me and what he found still sticks up. I have addaed a bit to the story but we miss the magic document listing AF assignments against their registrations numbers. But we have most of the story and certainly Rootes delayed registering vehicles to put off paying Purchase Tax and First Series AF cars were re-cycled into the Series 2 (MKII) programme:

The best I can say goes like this:
First AF Series
AF1 - 1st Rootes protototype (based on SIII Alpine) 'Project 870' given to Williams & Pritchard to build Le Mans 'Mule'. 1st Reg Date = 01/06/64
AF2 - SIII (B9203826). Later rebodied privately with SIV, taken to South Africa - now lost. Ist Reg Date = 25/05/64
AF3 - SIV became B9470003. Flown over to Shelby = never registered in UK = some bits survive
AF4 - SIV became B9470002. Ist Reg Date = 18/02/64. Survives..just.
AF5 - SIV became B9470004. Ist Reg Date = 04/02/64. Destroyed in 80's
AF6 - SIV GT became B9470010 Ist Reg Date = 17/06/64. Survives
AF7 - SIV Probably morphed in to AF203
AF8 - SIV became B9470005. New York Auto Show 'Tiger' = never registered in UK. Am told it survives in the USA.
AF9 - SIV became B9470006. Ist Reg Date = 23/03/64. Survives (resto case)
AF10 - SIV became B9470007. Ist Reg Date = 23/03/64. Survives (resto case)
AF11 -SIV GT Probably B9470009. Ist Reg Date = 07/10/64. Survives
AF12 -SIV Probably morphed into AF204
AF13 - Not assigned
AF14 - Tiger body (B9470xxx). Status unknown
AF15 - No knowledge of what this one was.

That leaves B9470008 as yet not connected to an AF assignement. Ist Reg Date = 04/06/64

Second AF Series
AF201 - No knowledge of what this one was
AF202 - Tiger body. Ist Reg Date= 15/02/65. Survives
AF203 - See above. Ist Reg Date = 11/03/65. Survives
AF204 - See above. Ist Reg Date = 09/04/65. Survives
AF205 - AF207. Were probably production vehicles (management cars)!

Still a few bones to pick out!
All views welcomed by...

Graham
STOC Editor

Hi Graham,
The best thing about your list, is that the majority of the car's are surviving even if some are only just surviving .
Regards, Robin.